joining us now is matt graham. matt, how do you explain why mortgage application went up in the face of rising rates you would expect probably the opposite >> yeah, i think when it comes to mortgage applications, probably better to take a longer view and not get too bogged down in nitty gritty, week-to-week movements. it's easier to sort of line up those correlations in the bigger picture. a one-week change can end up being noise in the bigger picture. what is does the longer view tell you >> it never tells us anything about the future, but it does tell us that rates have absolutely crushed transactions on the rhefie side market, and they haven't been too kind to the purchase side either i remember last year thinking mba numbers are in line with the long-term loans, shouldn't get much worse, and it got much worse because rates went even higher so yeah, there's almost nowhere to go but up at current levels >> what is the point at which interest rates literally crush the mortgage application market? we're at 7.5% now